The End of Forwards?

[monky]

I want to know people's views on the upcoming patch are, and what should be done, if anything, to stop the game becoming a battle between HBs and Fbs

[Warmfuzzy]

I heard an "end of forwards" comment a few playtests back and am wondering why people have this impression. Is the forward perceived as no longer different enough from the halfback? Is he just too weak in the face of a bunch of defensive guys with Lee Harvey Oswald? Are people getting so good at hooking that speedwise it no longer matters what class they are playing?

PS: There are a couple more balance tweaks we'd like to make and test prior to release. At least one of these is a class differentiator.

[DoomyDoom]

Last I checked the stats on test, Forward now has 1500 shot speed, and HB 1000. There's almost no advantage there compared to the 3000 before. HB starts a little slower than FD off of a turbo, but if you're good it won't matter. The advantages forward has aren't enough to compensate for getting run over and killed by halfbacks and fullbacks.

[TheMasterOfBattle]

No idea if this would be a good idea. But if forward is supposed to be the fastest class. Maybe forwads could get a a dodge percentage chance, in which the forward has maybe a 0-20% chance to dodge a charge attack. dodge rate would depend on speed. But you have to be at a specific speed to dodge (if you stand put you can't dodge :P ). I don't think it should be applied to being able to dodge the goalies stationary charge though. (this might be me being a goalie though XD)

[Hamp]

Originally Posted by Warmfuzzy

Are people getting so good at hooking that speedwise it no longer matters what class they are playing?

It has been that way since public beta.

[monky]

Originally Posted by Warmfuzzy
Are people getting so good at hooking that speedwise it no longer matters what class they are playing?

HB actually are faster than forwards now-a-days, but the main strength forwards have is the shot strength and goal crowding, ando f course the pick up radius. With these being nerfed, it is kinda obvious forward is losing the reason anyone plays it.

Personally, i think forward should be the fastest class hands down, and to do this wouldn't be difficult - increase their base speed and then increase their mass until they boost at the same speed they do atm. This would give them the same boost advantage which they have now, but allow them to build more speed from hooking, thus making them the fastest class - i've no problem with my forward being weak, only scourge tends to ko me a lot. Weakness is the cost of the shot and goal crowding. Also I think the nerfing of the forward's shot should be looked at, as on test version I personally can still goal crowd fairly easily

[Scourge]

Originally Posted by monky

Personally, i think forward should be the fastest class hands down, and to do this wouldn't be difficult - increase their base speed and then increase their mass until they boost at the same speed they do atm. This would give them the same boost advantage which they have now, but allow them to build more speed from hooking, thus making them the fastest class

I'm not certain that this would be the way to do it. Hooking speed is governed purely by gravitational pull and redirecting the momentum. Right now the FD base speed is (afaik) the fastest already, and an increased mass isn't going to affect gravitational pull at all.

HOWEVER, what if FD had a unique turbo that if used when going faster than 900 UPS, it would actually add a small amount of speed? I'm not saying to double up on the 900, but an extra 10-40ish per turbo would be more than enough to put them way above anyone else in easily achievable speed. Plus it would give FDs a turbo dump, I know a lot of them run around with green bars most of the time because they don't really charge at people.

i've no problem with my forward being weak, only scourge tends to ko me a lot. Weakness is the cost of the shot and goal crowding. Also I think the nerfing of the forward's shot should be looked at, as on test version I personally can still goal crowd fairly easily

You can still goal crowd, but you need four forwards on test to be as effective as one forward now.

[monky]

or good timing, and a knowledge of the attacker's habits

[voodooc]

Originally Posted by monky

HB actually are faster than forwards now-a-days, but the main strength forwards have is the shot strength and goal crowding, ando f course the pick up radius. With these being nerfed, it is kinda obvious forward is losing the reason anyone plays it.

How are HB faster than FD?

And remember, its not the pickup radius that is nerfed, its the intercept radius. The pickup radius applies to neutral or friendly balls. The intercept radius applies to enemy balls.

Personally, i think forward should be the fastest class hands down, and to do this wouldn't be difficult - increase their base speed and then increase their mass until they boost at the same speed they do atm. This would give them the same boost advantage which they have now, but allow them to build more speed from hooking, thus making them the fastest class - i've no problem with my forward being weak, only scourge tends to ko me a lot. Weakness is the cost of the shot and goal crowding. Also I think the nerfing of the forward's shot should be looked at, as on test version I personally can still goal crowd fairly easily

How does increasing the FD mass increase their hooking speed?

Another thing to keep in mind is the energy cost of a turbo move. Right now forwards can generally perform one more turbo move than a halfback on a full tank: 5 or 6 compared to 4 or 5, depending on the kind of move. We might consider increasing that difference, so that a forward can zip around all day long and the halfback chews up more turbo each time they boost.

[DrakeNL]

that would quite effectively cut down the HB defensive stats .... and btw, once you got your speed, you don't boost anymore.

And for the mass/speed thingie: If I am correct, you fall faster if you have a higher mass, so you also swing down faster while moving, hence you will be able to go faster. (BTW, I'm not sure on this one, just that HL2 has a very good physics engine, so this would be logical)